The Chance the Rapper Situation is Deeper Than We Thought
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zENfNpS7f4

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0:00 So, recently your boy Chance the Rapper um had some uh he was having he was doing an interview and he had some some choice words to say, but he brought up
0:10 um James Con. Anybody know who James Conn is? The Black Liberation Theology and he he kind of quoted it and uh it makes you think like we got to we got to
0:20 correct some things. So let's let's take a look at what Chancellor Rapper said about um uh this um ideology of uh James Con and we'll come right back and
0:30 discuss that >> was a book called God of the Oppressed by James Con. And James Conn he invented this theology called Black Liberation
0:38 theology which interprets the gospel as a gospel of liberation. And it makes the definition of coming into God's kingdom. It it makes it we have to defeat white
0:48 supremacy. That is the sole enemy of the church. that is the devil on earth is white supremacy and the cross in the lynching tree is the one that made me
0:56 write letters. It made me challenge the church. Very seldom do you hear a sermon that's about Jesus the disruptor. How his whole existence was him coming into
1:05 places and saying y'all doing everything wrong. Walking into the church or to the temple and saying y'all doing everything wrong. Going to the Pharisees or the
1:12 people anybody even the government and saying this wrong. That was like his whole ministry. I love with letters that I got to attack it at every point. It
1:21 wasn't just this is what's wrong in the black church. It was also like my home church. This is what y'all do wrong. Y'all gossip in this. Y'all don't
1:30 support or fund any of the programming. Y'all don't do fellowshipping or outreach in the community. We got homeless people, kids that need a
1:37 church, all these things. And to be honest, like a lot of my peoples was not with that. You know what I'm saying? Cuz they love my church. Like this, you know
1:44 what I'm saying? Well, you know what Baldwin said though was that precisely because I love America must critique it >> is why I must critique it. To really
1:53 love someone or something is to free yourself to be honest about it. You know what I mean? And to love it through its flaws and seek for its betterment.
2:04 That's it. >> All right. All right. So, y'all heard Chance the Rapper tell saying basically that um
2:13 James Conn uh was arguing for uh white supremacy um being legitimized, right? So, basically his book um well, this whole liberation theology was to argue
2:27 that portions of white American church had actually theologically legitimized white supremacy. and he's he's he's preaching a false boss doctrine because
2:37 it's talking about uh separatism and he's trying to separate, you know, the body of Christ by race and of course we already know where where that goes. Um
2:48 I'm very concerned because this this um James Con theology uh was very dangerous in the I guess you say ' 70s '8s >> uh for the black church because it had
3:01 people thinking that white men were the devil or white people were the devil and that supremacy was the mindset that America was supposed the the
3:10 Americanized Christian church was based off of. um which isn't true and I think that's probably why we have a lot of people today saying oh this is the white
3:17 man's religious religion and why are y'all following in that situation um but yeah uh very very concerned about the James Con situation here because
3:28 [snorts] he was basically talking about the oppressed right he was basically arguing that um Christianity should be more about suffering under
3:39 oppression as opposed to racism um and the fact that Jesus was looking at the uh marginalized people and he has an argument that makes sense but it doesn't
3:52 make sense right he's basically saying that Jesus cared for the marginalized yes he did but he didn't have a race or color in mind he cared for all people so
4:02 yeah his his theology is off and a lot of people are being tripped up when they follow um >> this uh way of con's thinking and also
4:10 to add to this con is also probably one of the earlier people to suggest um the uh gay affirming church. >> So he's he's one of those in the
4:22 Methodist church that was just basically saying like we can't throw everybody out. We have to love them. You want to love people through um you want to love
4:32 the the person but hate the sin. Um and he just kind of had this backwards um approach to the faith. >> H that's interesting. Um, I feel like
4:43 two things can be right at the same time or two things can be wrong at the same time. >> Um,
4:49 so obviously we know that Jesus is no like he don't choose black people, white people. Like he loves everybody. Like race is your race is not what's going to
4:58 determine your salvation or whether you get into heaven or not. >> But I'll be sitting here lying to you all if I said there wasn't a blaring
5:07 issue of white supremacy within the American church. Oh yeah, we agree. Um, so agree with that. >> I think even when you look at a lot of
5:15 times when you see historical figures from the Bible being pictured, I'm not saying they got to look like me, but I know they don't look like the way
5:22 >> exactly, you know. So it's like >> it's kind of it's almost kind of mental abuse for someone to tell you that it's not about race
5:32 when everything is slanted towards you. Everything looks like you, so everything's to your benefit. But then you come and tell me it's not about
5:40 race. Well, if it's not about race, why did you feel the need to whitewash history? And so >> that's the frustration that people are
5:48 dealing with. You got to think about a Dr. James Con who lived during these times of civil rights and all these things and he's seeing the oppression.
5:55 He's seeing the effect. He's seeing the little black girls that got blew up. You know what I'm saying? The church and all this stuff. Like he's seeing all this
6:01 stuff >> and he's in the heat of civil rights. >> Yeah. >> And then you continue to see these
6:07 things going on now. How you look at the people even to today you see the people that Trump have in the White House. You see the stuff that's going on. It's like
6:13 it's a blaring issue. And I think >> for black people what we must not do is take the bait of becoming the thing that we despise
6:21 >> now. We don't want to be become reverse racist to where all white people are the devil or all white people are evil. I got some white brothers and sisters who
6:29 are like and that's not me saying I got white friends. No, I I really got some real you know what I'm saying? I got some real white brothers and sisters who
6:34 I who I talk to regularly. like we >> you know what I'm saying? We cool. But I think it's like people go from one extreme to
6:43 the other. It's like either we racist or we ignore the problem. >> And I think somewhere in between we have to acknowledge the fact that we have
6:50 been marginalized, mistreated, and some of the doctrine and stuff that we were introduced to didn't quite tell us the truth about who we are and what the
7:00 scriptures say. Now, none of that stuff transcends Christ as a whole. Like I said, I'm not I'm not one of them people who believe your race is what saves you.
7:07 But however, when you have a large group of people, mainly minorities, who feel like they're not included in scripture or they they're made to feel this is a
7:16 white man religion. So much so that a lot of people are missing out on it. It's like we have to address that problem somehow. And we can't we can't
7:25 address it by sweeping under the rug. We got to be honest and truthful about the things that have happened. Have the Bible been whitewashed? Yes.
7:31 >> Mhm. Is there false doctrine being teached that making black people marginalized black people feel like they deserve to be this way? Yes. You know
7:37 what I'm saying? Like we have to be honest about it. Not to the point, like I said, we become racist, but we can't ignore the blaring facts that's in our
7:43 face. >> I think I think he wrote those I think he wrote his original book because at the time, like James said,
7:50 >> um he wasn't just going against white people. he starts to see that the church or the falling away at the time of the black church was a lot of people were
7:59 going to um um going to the Black Panther Party. They were going to the Nation of Islam and all this. So he came up and was like, "Well, when you read
8:09 the Bible, God is against oppression. He's against injustice." >> So it's like God is with us. Like black people, you don't have this is not a
8:19 white man's religion. God is for um um he is for the oppressed people. He is for people who feel um injustice. He it's it's all he hates injustice. He
8:31 hates oppression. >> So that I think that's what he was going at. And then I think I think I think somehow someway I don't know um um you
8:41 know of course when you when you say stuff like that of course people get mad at you and other races may get mad. Um, but I mean I think the truth of the
8:49 matter of um the truth of the matter of saying that Christ is with the oppressed, I don't think people should be angry with that. Um, I think he was
8:58 getting backlash also that Jesus was black. Um, well, God is black and stuff like and people got mad at that evangelicals and stuff like that called
9:06 reverse racism. >> Yeah. Um, so but I I do think at the same time I I I agree what you are saying that you can't
9:14 >> you can't do reverse quote unquote hatred, you know, cuz yeah, >> black people can't be racist. That's what people say. But [laughter]
9:22 >> but reverse racism, reverse racism, racist towards other people is not right. That's not biblical either. So exactly what you're saying. But I do
9:32 think that's the >> that's even what honestly and your boy preach it like Jamal Bryan preach black liberation you know theology. So I think
9:41 I think at the same time it's like how do you balance that out because yes scripture does tell us that God is with the oppressed. He's there with the
9:49 oppressed. He's there with you know um he he he hates injustice. >> But at the same time it's like he still loves mankind. He still sent his son to
9:59 die >> for everybody. This kind of stuff comes from a place of frustration though. I think even to this day, it's a large
10:06 amount of people who are frustrated with the Christian church because it feel like we don't have an answer for what's going on in today's society. We don't
10:13 have an answer to why black people have been treated the way they've been treated for all this time. Well, there's answers, but we don't articulate those
10:20 answers. We throw slogans and phrases at people. >> And I think one thing that I did hear, I remember one time I saw an interview
10:25 with Dr. James Con. It was him and it was Paul Paul Mortyn on the stage. And part more was just saying just going off about you know the spirit and this this
10:33 this and this and James Con was saying I'm concerned um because he said the Bible said love with your heart your soul and your mind
10:43 >> like we have a lot of heart and emotion and soul and all that kind of stuff but it's almost like we just check our mind at the door and we don't think.
10:50 >> Yeah. So, I think where people villainize him as much, what he really was trying to do, >> I I don't agree with everything he said,
10:58 obviously, but what he really was trying to do was get people to think like, >> let's not just blindly follow these things that we're being told. This is
11:06 the same place at one point took parts of the Bible and gave it to slaves because they wanted to hide certain things from them. What are you hiding?
11:13 >> Yeah. >> Why' you feel the need to hide it? This is the same country that everybody in the Bible looked like them.
11:18 >> Yeah. This is the same country where they have slave ships named Jesus. So that way when you think of the name Jesus on the slave ship, it gives you a
11:25 negative connotation of what will cuz you think about pain and suffering when you think about the name Jesus. You see what I'm saying? So
11:31 >> we got Willie Lynch. You know what I'm saying? Like let's let's not act like you know what I'm saying these claims and these things that just come from out
11:37 the smoke. Like it's from a place of frustration, pain, hurt, and anger. But what we got to do, we can't allow our frustration, our pain, and our anguish
11:45 to cause us to become the very thing that we despise. Let's address it, but let's address it with the character of God. Let's address it with the character
11:52 of Christ. I mean, in and the heart posture that God would want us to have. >> He was He was mistreated more than anybody.
11:58 >> He was despised more than anybody. He did nothing wrong. We do stuff wrong all the time. >> So, let's not act like, you know,
12:05 >> we can we we're justified in being ignorant and racist. But, however, don't check your mind at the door. do the research, learn it, and I understand,
12:13 okay, if these things happen, how can I approach these things and deal with these things through the lens of what scripture said? Because God is going to
12:19 judge. He ain't going to say, "You were justified in being racist." He going to be like, "No, in spite of that, I still called you to be holy. I still called
12:24 you to be righteous." >> Exactly. >> So, how you going to deal with it? >> And I love the fact that you brought
12:28 that out because we always going to bring you back to the word and tie it with a bow because the way you get out of all of that stuff and you find your
12:36 answers is through the word of God. And I love the fact that you said that because Nat Turner is a great example who was living in the times where the
12:44 little Lynch lenders was being hap was happening. You feel me? And when he got they had the slave Bible, but when he got access to the actual Bible and the
12:54 actual scripture, he was able to find God and preach the real gospel >> and just remember forever because of these things. So, we can't, like you
13:01 said, we can't allow this stuff to turn us. And we can't have the excuse cuz I'm going to be honest. We can't have the excuse of they did all of this stuff to
13:11 do cuz they did everything they could to take joy from us to do all of these things to us. But at the end of the day, Nat Turner is the example. If I got the
13:19 word of God in the midst of all of this foolishness, I will still see God. I will still see his heart. I will still see his experience his true character.
13:26 He will still be here to liberate me and defend me and vindicate me and all the things. That's right. Um, so even today you reading your Bible, there's too many
13:35 things in scripture that will show you color. Even though whoever wants to whitewash scripture, if you are in your Bible, you'll still see it.
13:45 >> And a very wonderful example that I love to look at is when um Matthew 2:12 where where the Lord sent u Mary and Joseph out and he gave them another way. He
13:56 sent them to Egypt >> and what kind of skin they got over there. Right. Exactly. How do you >> hiding amongst them? [laughter]
14:02 >> How How do you hide in Egypt? >> Moses Moses was in Egypt chilling after he went down the river in the back. Like,
14:09 >> so we know these things. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> don't forget it.
14:13 >> We we we know these things, but >> Exactly. Don't allow them to manipulate you. >> The temptation is like, and I've been
14:18 talking to Hebrew Israelites this week. Um, and I realize all of them not the same. That's a totally different conversation. All of them not the same.
14:27 But [snorts] there are a large number that I know that prioritize race and they believe that we're the chosen people and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.
14:33 >> Let's just say theoretically speaking we are. >> When you think they give you more responsibility to live the way that God
14:40 told you to live as opposed to be full of hatred and despise other people because of the way they look when you felt like you don't like the way you
14:46 were treated doing that. >> So I think >> I think man and it's tough for me. I'm a proud black man. You know I I'm glad God
14:54 made me but I wouldn't want to be any other color. I don't feel like God made mistakes. Me too. [laughter] >> However, I'm not going to be ignorant
15:00 and I'm not going to I'm not going to follow the stereotypes and become the person that they they want to claim that I am.
15:06 >> Well, James Con said one thing, like I say, he said, "Love the Lord with your heart, your soul, but don't forget your mind." Like, when you go into these
15:13 these you take the bait and you fall into this hatred and all this kind of stuff, they're looking at you like, "Look at them." They don't know how to
15:19 look at them. Look at them. But when you're intelligent, when you can recognize what's going on, but you can lean on the Holy Spirit and you can
15:25 correctly articulate what's going on. Like we heard se certain things come out like the white evangel white evangelical church came out and said Jesus didn't
15:32 deal with social issues. What Bible are you reading? You know what I'm saying? But you can get frustrated and get angry or you can just go to the text and show
15:39 the text to where he dealt with them. >> Because one thing about it, you can argue with me, you can argue with whoever, but you can't argue with, you
15:44 know what I'm saying? Like the word, you can't argue with words. So in every situation, scripture has to be the final authority.
15:51 >> If you if you mad with the book, then that's between you and >> I mean I forgot I forgot where it is the passage, but when when Jesus was like,
15:58 "You didn't you didn't clothe me. You didn't feed me. You didn't you you didn't watch." And then they was like, "When Jesus we did all that." He's like,
16:03 "When you looked at that person, you just walked past them." You know what I'm saying? And stuff of that nature. I do think I think we we was going to have
16:10 a conversation and we probably still have about Dr. King and Billy Graham. And I think the the the the the thing is a lot of people feel like
16:20 >> um just preach the gospel and the gospel will the the gospel will No, no, no. I'm just I'm going to tell you what they think. They think preaching the gospel
16:28 meaning that person gets saved, Jesus changed that person's heart and then once that person's heart been changed, they see the outcome and say, "Okay, I
16:36 was wrong in my ways. I was hatred towards people." that that's what they think can happen versus showing them to say, "Hey, listen. We can preach the
16:45 gospel, but there's some systematic stuff that's not right. There's some stuff that that you know, when people talk about white privilege." I had to
16:52 come to this conclusion about um white privilege is like, >> yeah, you may not be you may not have you may have the you may be in the same
16:59 boat as me, but when a cop stop you, he may he may not be clenching his gun as tightly. Or when you go in the store, they may not be following you around
17:06 versus when they follow me around. That's That's my thing. We we we can't ignore the realities. Like we can't sit here and act like in a little different
17:14 level of pressure when the lights pull up behind us than when they pull up behind our comp brother. >> We see certain some people have the
17:21 privilege don't even realize they have the privilege cuz their heart may not be the one where I feel like I'm better than nobody. But just because the way
17:28 things are set up, it is what it is. Like >> I think >> I don't think we have to be ignorant of
17:33 the facts to walk right. You see what I'm saying? Like I I see the racism. We see the the blatant stuff that's going on. You look at the schools in our
17:40 community. You look at schools of other community. We see the lack of resources. We see the lack of funds. However, >> who are we trusting then?
17:46 >> Yeah. >> Like it said in scripture as they tried to kill the kill the Israelites, they grew in number every time they try to
17:51 take them out. >> We see what's going on. We see the lynches and stuff that's happening with the young people that's going on. We see
17:56 all this stuff that's going on. Is it okay? No. Does it bother us? Yeah. Does it grieve us? Yeah. and and and just I'm reading comments, you know, somebody
18:04 says some so some some social justice ain't biblical. And you're absolutely right. Absolutely. >> You're absolutely right. Some stuff
18:12 >> some stuff if it's not if it's something that's against the word of God, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right.
18:18 >> The devil is running the devil run this down here. Like the Lord is in control of all. >> Yeah. He overseas
18:25 >> but the devil >> like he >> this his playground >> the the devil working in move right now.
18:30 You know what I'm saying? But we know how it's going to end. We got to live like we know how it's going to end in spite of it. Understand that we've been
18:36 sent out the word said we're sheep amongst wolves. >> Yeah. >> Like it's like
18:40 >> if you a sheep going out with wolves what you think that you know what I'm saying? So it's like Christianity is so sacrificial.
18:47 >> Um because the one we follow sacrifice the we get the ultimate sacrifice. So it's like you got to sacrifice your pride sometimes. You got to sacrifice
18:55 that anger. You got to sac don't be ignorant and don't ignore it. But it's like >> that's the thing when it said deny
19:02 yourself. >> Like it takes everything in me. It been some topics on this show. Y'all know me. >> It been some topics on this show I was
19:08 just like man I [clears throat] ain't going to let these folk get away with this. >> And I get home and the Lord checks me.
19:13 He said what you said >> it wasn't wrong but was it holy? You see what I'm saying? >> That's good.
19:18 >> It was factual but was it holy? You know what I'm saying? Are people are people am I getting the most glory from what you said or you are people going to look
19:25 at you and say I agree with you or is God getting the glory from this >> and we got to start living and speaking in a way where God gets the glory and
19:32 not us. >> And when we doing that then I think I think everything else will fall in place, you know.
19:39 >> Yeah. I I've heard I've heard it positioned this way to me before. Um, white Christians will say, "Well, if Jesus is the final authority and all
19:47 those things did happen, shouldn't we all just be focused on Jesus right now? Shouldn't we just be pushing the gospel forward with the message of of of Christ
19:57 and uh unfor, you know, forgiveness and and love?" And I'm like, "Yes, but we still can't ignore the fact that those things happen, right? We still can't
20:07 push away those things. It's like if you have a if you have a current disease, right? you still get up every morning and you treat that disease. You take
20:15 your medications. You you pray about it. You um you change your diet. You change your whole structure just so if you're living with something that you continue
20:24 to um live like that thing isn't there, >> but you still know that it is because eventually what you're doing is you're praying that thing away. And so the same
20:34 thing goes with your your skin color, your race is that yeah, you're trying to live for Christ. You're trying to give God honor and glory through your life.
20:43 And you're trying to look at people without seeing race or color, but at the same time, you know, in the back of your mind that these are things you have to
20:52 worry about as you raise young black kids, as you raise your family and you steward them well. Those are the things that you have to be aware of. So, no, I
21:01 get that. >> That's good. >> I do have a comment here. Um, a few people said it, but I'mma read Cara
21:07 Brown 3862. Okay. So, how do we talk about it? How do we acknowledge it without being told we're victims? How can we address these things and not be
21:17 victims and also not idolize or dismiss it either? >> We we tell the history. We say, "Do these things happen?" Yeah, they happen.
21:23 We >> That's the problem in the church, too, man. I feel like we try to mask too much stuff or we try to excuse stuff. Like,
21:29 you got to like the same thing we were talking about with, bro, in the previous topic. >> We got to face this stuff head on, man.
21:33 >> Yeah. M >> especially now in these times we living in where you go something and the folk going to go straight to chat GBT,
21:39 Google, whatever and try to get some facts whether you want to go to that or not. But they going to go somewhere and they going to try to find out the truth.
21:44 If you really trying to get people to understand what we believe and it's real and you need to be applied to life, tell folks the facts. Tell folks the truth.
21:53 Tell them like, yeah, this racism stuff, it does exist. >> Yeah. >> But then we should have a, like I said,
21:58 love the Lord with your mind. As believers, we should be knowledgeable enough of the thing that we based our life on, which is scripture, to go in
22:04 the book and talk about how the scripture talks about these things. Show the scriptures that deal with this stuff.
22:10 >> Like, we're not being ignorant. We not ignoring it. Yeah. You see, yeah, they going to they treating you funny at school cuz you're black. Okay. That's
22:15 the reality. This how you supposed to respond. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
22:18 >> You know what I'm saying? I think that's what it is. It's like >> most of the time hear people say, "I just got to keep I know what God say. I
22:25 just got to keep it real." How much really you going to keep it than the scripture? You know what I'm saying? like I got to keep it real. What is
22:30 keeping it real when God ain't involved? How real you how real are you if God ain't involved? So, I think give people the real facts about what's going on and
22:37 show them what scripture says. I'm going to be like, "Man, this is tough." Cuz if that little boy did the same thing he did to me, I probably would want to slap
22:43 him in the mouth, too. >> However, you slap them in the mouth >> now. They looking at you a certain kind of way. They marking you in school. They
22:49 treating you different. You missing out on opportunities, this and things and that where you can use self-control and leave it in God hands and watch what
22:55 happen. And I'm a living witness. I've done that. I used to slap people in the mouth. But now, yeah, [laughter] I remember being I'm telling my I remember
23:02 I was in Circus City one time >> and uh >> yeah, >> little kid said, "Hey, mom, there goes
23:07 the N word." You know what I'm saying? And yeah, you know what I'm saying? I was I was young and I'm just not learning about learning about Rosa Parks
23:15 and all that. >> I pop them in the mouth. You know what I'm saying? But >> as I got older, like when I was a child,
23:20 I thought as a child, you know what I'm saying? But now, man, I put child things. So I summarize that. But yeah. Um
23:26 >> now it's just like how do I really handle that? I do that now. I'm going to jail. I got a child. I got know I'm out here doing ministry. How is that going
23:32 to look when people see me not living the word that I'm preaching? >> I've always struggled with that because I grew up in white private schools and
23:40 uh I always felt like I was um uh inferior to them. That was just the way they made me feel from the teachers to the students. There was only like three
23:49 or four of us in the classroom, right? And so we felt that way when we weren't when we were picked last for recess and football and kickball and all that kind
23:57 of stuff. We were just kind of told over and over again, we don't fit in here. You're not a part of that. It wasn't until I got to public school in middle
24:05 school where I started really understanding my identity and being proud of it uh without the consequences of feeling like I got to, you know, be
24:13 something that I'm not or I have to, you know, people tell me all the time I speak a certain way, >> right? And I'm like, I get that. But
24:20 that was public school. That was I mean that was private school. That was how we had we had to do phonics a certain way, you know. Um and all the the schools I
24:29 went to were white Christian private schools. So it was always always difficult for me. >> I will say one thing though. Um, I think
24:36 the the whole projects of what somebody talked about I think Shenia just said about how do we become how do we what did you say something about not being a
24:46 victim but still doing the will of God or something of that of that nature. >> Yeah. Like she's asking how do we process all of these things acknowledge
24:55 it at the same time yet not be a victim. >> Yeah. I will say this. Um, one, you can't let um I think you can't we can't let another race like victimize we we
25:06 I'm sorry. We can't we can't um we can't hold people to something that it's hard to say this. You can't really hold people to other people's mess ups.
25:18 You know what I'm saying? That's that's kind of hard to say. You can't I can't I can't hold if Mr. Tom is younger than me and me and him cool but something
25:28 happened in his well his past well somebody else's past or somebody in his family did something I can't hold that against him if me and him are brothers
25:35 and he knows like yo that was wrong what my uncle did I'm sorry about that >> I can't hold that against him. You know what I'm saying? And biblically we can't
25:43 hold that against him if we're going to be biblically correct. >> I don't think you can hold it against >> you can't forget you forget it but you
25:49 can't hold it against them. >> You can hold it against people who don't have nothing to do with it. Right. However, I don't think they also should
25:55 act like it don't exist. >> No. And that's what I'm saying. And that's what I'm saying. Like using that example is homie like, "Yo, I'm sorry
26:00 for what that happened." You know what I mean? That shouldn't have happened. You know what I mean? But I think I do think people sometimes get over it does sound
26:07 like, "Yo, you as a brother in Christ, you don't you don't or sister in Christ, you don't see that that situation was very hurtful to a race of people." You
26:15 know what I mean? >> Say get over it is very >> sensitive. That's what I'm saying. >> Very. Now, I'm glad you brought that up
26:20 because I have a comment that I wanted to get to and it's talking about forgiveness. So, we have Eden's Photography LLC.470.
26:30 The narrative of forgiveness just seems like it benefits the individuals who performed the atrocities. Sounds like an attempt to escape the Most High's
26:38 judgment. What do you guys think about that? >> Forgiveness is more for yourself because if you don't forgive, you're holding on
26:46 to a grudge that's causing a hate. your heart. You going to be mad all the time. You're going to be upset. You need to forgive that person.
26:54 >> Yeah, they benefit from you forgiving them as well, but you benefit more cuz >> you're going to be judged off forgiveness. The Lord tells us to
27:02 forgive >> how many times? >> What? Seven times seven. So that's just something that we supposed to do.
27:09 >> And when you don't forgive, you're holding on. That's going to cause bitterness, >> hate, all those kind of things. So
27:16 >> man, unforgiveness is like it can have so many effects on your life. I look at unforgiveness like a seed like you plant you plant a tree
27:24 >> that one little seed going to have a tree going to have so many branches out. It'll affect your childhood. It affect your parenting. It'll affect your
27:30 marriage. It's all the root. You got to deal with that stuff at the root. >> And granted, >> is what happened to you probably unfair
27:38 and should not have happened to you? Absolutely. But now it comes down to what kind of faith do I have in God that after I do what he asked me to do, which
27:45 is forgive, how much faith do I have in God to restore me and heal me from the things that happened? >> And also,
27:51 >> is not God capable of turning the thing that happened to me into a testimony to where now I can speak to other people and become a blessing to them. Talk
27:58 about it. So that pain can become a seed that brings forth fruit instead of being withered branches on the tree. Exactly.